White River Township Fire Protection District
Board Meeting Minutes
October 2, 2007
District Board Members Present:
Dr. Chuck Shufflebarger
Rev. Jim Dodson
Jon Raker
Butch Sutton
Paul Kite
Jeremy Pell
Scott Cassin
Jeff Wilson
Jim Engmark
Dave Scholl
Charles Fraker
Mike Winterhalter
Scott Klinger
Crystal Young
Others Present:
Tricia Leminger
Dudley Senefeld
Scott Senefeld
Dan Sulkoske
Note: Motions are italicized and in blue.
Dr. Shufflebarger called the meeting to order at 7:14 p.m.
i.
Chief Cassin
stated that the department received a check on Friday for approximately two
million.
ii.
He also stated
that the amount was accounted for in the update.
i.
Ms. Leminger
stated that the final issues are concerning an electric piece, HVAC piece, the
plenum wiring, the fire alarm system and the Hood.
ii.
Senefeld has
created the punch list and Kramer has reviewed it.
1. All necessary reports have been received.
a. The report on the HVAC was a page and a half of
comments. Most were minor and may have
already been addressed.
2. JE Mechanical has been told to provide a timeline and
a plan of action by 3:00pm on the 3rd of October.
3. Steelcorp must also provide a timeline and plan of
action by 3:00pm.
4. The Hood for the kitchen is under the same
process. Currently the vent is against
code and the department wants that addressed.
iii.
The departments
target is to get into the building.
iv.
JE Mechanical
has been contracted with individually and the department still owes them
approximately $44,000 to fulfill the contract.
By holding the payment the department could make them responsive.
1. Kramer has come up with a back-up plan if removal of
JE Mechanical is necessary.
2. Mr. Kite asked if there were enough funds left to
complete the work if they are removed.
a. Mr. Senefeld stated that they are holding 20% of
contract and that should be enough funds to cover the work.
b. JE Mechanical did come up with solutions during the
inspection and Mr. Senefeld believes they will come up with a plan of action.
v.
Ms. Leminger
stated that the plenum issue will be reviewed by an electric consultant to make
sure it is rated correctly. The
department is currently waiting for visual certification.
vi.
Mr.
Shufflebarger reiterated that everyone will have more information by tomorrow.
1. Mr. Senefeld and Mr. Sulkoske concurred that they are
in contact frequently and will know quickly what action will need to be taken
next.
i.
Chief Pell
stated that on September 10th the council gave approval of the budget.
1. He also stated that the county council had several
questions for both
2. Most questions were to gain information than anything
else.
a. Such as why is White River bigger than everyone else
to which Chief Pell pointed out the differences between
b. Another question related to raises.
i.
Mr. West wanted
more information from the chiefs. He
requested to see the departments Strategic and Fiscal plan and Chief Pell asked
the board for permission to send those items to them. Dr. Shufflebarger along with the rest of the
board was okay with giving them information.
ii.
Chief Pell
stated that the department will pay attention to the tax issues when working on
the new budget.
i.
There is
currently no new information.
ii.
Mr. Sutton asked
if the property that has yet to be plowed going to St. Francis. No one knows the answer to that at this time.
iii.
Chief Brown did
state that Starbucks would have been built by now if everything was going as
planned.
1. He is not sure if they have pulled out or not.
2. There has been no news on the offer made by the
department.
i.
The position was
posted to current lieutenants and there was no interest. There is interest form a current engineer.
ii.
The department
needs direction on rank and pay grade and is looking into it being an appointed
rank and not a permanent rank.
iii.
Would the
department need to make a change to the Safety Board Document.
1. The position needs legitimate authority and pay due
to the added responsibility and change from shift to a Monday through Friday
position.
iv.
Ms. Leminger did
some follow up on the concern of the appointed position.
1. In August of 2005 everyone’s ranks were cleared
up. There were two appointments, chief
and battalion chief.
2. During the last revision the board was concerned with
cleaning up the ranks.
v.
Mr. Sutton
wondered why the board had to jump through hoops for Mr. Bosma.
1. The question was number of ranks for the size of the
department.
2. Ms. Leminger stated that Mr. Bosma engineered the
arrangement to have one level to meet the standards. If using the Division Chief concept he did
not seem to have a problem with it.
3. Dr. Shufflebarger wanted to know in terms of count
and department size what levels count.
a. Chief Pell responded by stating that state code for
upper level policy making is chief and next level being considered the upper
level policy making positions.
b. Chief Pell also reminded the board that his permanent
rank is captain with an appointed rank of fire chief. Due to this situation he could not be knocked
down any lower than captain.
c. Chief Pell spoke to Jeff Logsdon who stated that
there is no state law concerning any rank just upper level policy making
positions.
vi.
The concern is
to not make the department too top heavy.
The department needs to give the rank but if promote with permanent rank
it would be tough for the department to knock them down a rank. By making the position an appointed rank it
would not make the department top heavy.
vii.
Ms. Leminger
suggested a one time exception letter for the position. If they could come up with the correct
language it may mean not changing the Safety Board Document.
1. Mr. Sutton asked if it would be a one shot deal for
the position.
2. Ms. Leminger stated that they have been kicking that
around. She also asked Chief Pell if a
one time letter accommodate the needs of the department to which he replied
“yes”.
3. Mr. Raker asked if a new letter would need to be
drawn up if a new person would take the position to which Ms. Leminger replied
yes.
viii.
Mr. Raker
suggests that a new Safety Board Document be drawn up to make it easier down
the road and cleaner.
1. Dr. Shufflebarger believes that there is still
confusion but agrees with Mr. Raker that updating the Safety Board Document
would be cleaner
2. Chief Pell stated that currently the clean line is
the existence of permanent ranks on shift and appointments in the office.
3. This issue will be brought to the Safety Board.
ix.
Mr. Kite
questions why the appointment needs to be a captain.
1. He does not believe the position could not have
authority just because they are a Lt.
2. He believes that guys know that he would be in charge
of the program and would automatically receive the respect.
3. Chief Pell stated that he would have legitimate
authority if everyone was told but informally it does not work that way. He wants the right people in the right
position.
a. If that person were to go to a company level Lt. and
disrupt their day and interact with community the department needs to give the
incentive of pay and authority for captain to that person to do the job.
b. The job could be done without captain authority but
there would be some resistance.
4. Mr. Kite asked what the position salary would be once
on the administrative shift and kicking the salary from engineer pay to
captains pay.
a. $50,000 to $58,000.
5. Mr. Raker stated that the board should not focus on
the pay but what the position does and what is deserved. Pay should be appropriate to the position.
6. Chief Pell stated that it will take more money for
incentive. The position has a lot more
responsibility and would change from the 24 hour shift to a Monday through
Friday. There is already a limited
amount of interest and there would be even less if they gave more
responsibility with no more money.
x.
Mr. Kite asked
why the department did not want to go with a civilian.
1. Chief Pell believes it would hurt the operation
concerning the level of career firefighters.
The position could be used for off duty responses; they would have
expertise in the fire service and would allow that position to be used as the
safety officer on the scene.
2. Mr. Kite stated that a merit position accomplishes
that but wanted to know about the comp time issues.
a. Chief Pell understands that the department needs to
be efficient but the community is growing faster than the department and he
does not want to go backwards and hinder the department and the level of
service it provides.
3. Mr. Kite asked if that would be an extra person to be
hired.
a. Chief Pell responded by saying that the department
currently has 37 career positions and it would still be 37 career positions
once this position is filled.
4. At this point the department does need to hire
someone.
a. The department has 37 career positions but there are
only 36 currently due to the departure of Lt. Williams.
b. The shortage is in the office right now and not on
the street.
5. Mr. Raker stated that the position already exists and
is budgeted at captains pay.
6. Mr. Kite still believes it could be funded at Lt.
position or could be make a civilian position.
xi.
Dr.
Shufflebarger stated that if the position was civilian the department would
still need to add another position.
1. The concern would be what the position costs. If the department needs to add manpower than
we need to add it.
xii.
Mr. Raker
believes that if the department were to hire a civilian that person would need
to know the fire service and fire safety.
How would the department find someone qualified to fill the position as
a civilian?
1. Chief Pell stated that the department could
re-arrange. The department would save
money with a civilian but would sacrifice experience and resources. The savings does not justify the sacrifice.
i.
The new
structure would get rid of the deputy chief position. The proposed alignment is more efficient.
1. It makes the chief more accessible and addresses the
issue of span of control and division of labor.
2. It makes sense operationally.
ii.
The position of
Staff Battalion of Operations has been added and will take someone from shift
to M-F position.
1. The department will add the 38th position
eventually.
iii.
Chief Pell is
looking for approval to make the structure change.
iv.
Ms. Leminger
stated that there have been unique changes to the DLGF.
1. One commissioner has resigned without there being a
new one to replace them.
2. There has been action taking place that they thought
would not happen.
a. Approval of emergency loans is not happening.
b. No department can depend 100% on rubber stamp on
budgets. They must wait until February 1st
and the budget is actually approved.
v.
Chief Pell
stated that the realignment starts with moving the deputy chief down but brings
about the ability to find the needed efficiencies.
vi.
Chief Pell knows
that the board has given him a tall challenge.
There have been discipline issues and inefficiencies in the past so he
is reviewing the policies and procedures to identify the needs of the
department.
1. He wants to get the right people in the right
positions and give them the tools they need to do the job.
2. The operations position will determine the response
districts, scheduling, and discipline issues as well as updating SOG’s and
running all three shifts as one and not three.
3. The Administrators deal with accounts payable,
deposits, financial issues, etc.
4. He wants to see what is needed and appropriate.
vii.
Mr. Sutton
believes Chief Pell is selling the wrong position. He wanted to know if this is the way the
department budgeted.
1. The new structure adds a battalion chief. Chief Cassin budgeted for worse case scenario
considering the department was waiting for the new fire chief and did not know
which command structure would be chosen.
2. There was a more expensive structure than the one
that was chosen so the money is in the budget to make the change.
a. Chief Pell stated that the structure with the two
assistant chiefs was the most expensive but that the one that was chosen is the
more efficient structure for the department.
b. Mr. Sutton asked if the one chosen was one spot less.
3. Mr. Dodson asked if the chief, assistant chief and
three battalion chiefs was the way it was left.
a. That structure was presented but that was not the one
chosen. The one chosen is shown on page
four of the meeting packet.
4. Mr. Raker reiterated that the department budgeted for
the worse case until the new chief came in and chose the command structure that
was needed.
5. Mr. Sutton made sure that the original discussion was
the presentation of several options.
Once presented the board decided to wait until the new fire chief
started.
6. Chief Pell then looked at several options and
discussed them with the senior staff.
The structure brings the full time staff from 37 to 38, everyone works
as division heads and would be the best structure to run the department
efficiently.
viii.
Mr. Dodson asked
about merit pay. Chief Thacker stated
that the staff battalions are not but that the three shift battalions are.
1. Currently Chief Slauter is doing the job as the
operations chief on his 24 hour shift but does a lot of work on his time off.
2. Chief Pell did not want to bust anyone down but Chief
Cassin was gracious enough to move down.
ix.
Ms. Leminger
stated that the position could be removed or moved at any time from through the
Safety Board Document. This position did
not count as a different level.
1. Mr. Kite asked if the row of staff battalions would
need to be made exempt.
a. The staff battalion is already exempt in the Safety
Board Document.
b. Deputy Chief is title only.
2. Chief Pell stated that there are truly only two
levels.
a. Mr. Kite reiterated that the staff battalions are
exempt from FLSA while the shift battalions are not. Everyone concurred.
3. Mr. Dodson asked if all staff battalions are
permanent. Chief Thacker stated that he
is the only one that is appointed.
a. In 2007 3 of the 4 staff battalions exist. The 2008 budget adds the fourth staff
battalion.
b. Chief Slauter will then move up and the department
will need to add one career firefighter.
The department budgeted considerably above that one position.
i.
It also saves
two stipends.
x.
Dr.
Shufflebarger stated that it is duck tailed and made sure that this is the
structure Chief Pell wanted for the department.
He also wanted to know the timetable for the structure.
1. Chief Pell stated that the structure will begin
during the 2008 budget.
2. Chief Pell also reiterated that he sees the need for
the ambulance service in the future.
That will entail billing, compliance, maintenance, and stock issues that
will need to be handled by a possible
3. Chief Pell stated that this is the structure that he
wants but stated that future growth may change the command structure.
xi.
Dr.
Shufflebarger stated that the Safety Board will need to take formal action and
will meet to discuss the Deputy Chief and Staff Battalion position.
1. The board also needs to decide on pay and rank for
the prevention officer. The department
needs to know how to progress on the issue.
The Safety Board will also need to amend the document to start moving on
that.
xii.
Dr.
Shufflebarger asked for motions for captain position for the prevention
officer.
1. Mr. Raker asked if the fire prevention position was
the pub ed on the structure to which the answer was yes.
2. Mr. Kite asked if the code enfc was part-time to
which the answer was also yes.
3. Mr. Kite making sure that he was reading the chart
right asked about the 37 positions.
a. There are 18 officers, 19 engineer or firefighter
positions.
b. There are 37 with two administration positions.
(Crystal and Jackie)
c. On A-shift there are 5 officers, 5 engineers and the
rest are part-time.
d. C-shift has one extra at this time due to Capt
Skipper.
e. Staffing: 21
max – 16 min. (Today there are 5
officers and 17 firefighters)
xiii.
Dr.
Shufflebarger asked for motions to make fire prevention a caption position.
1. Jon Raker motions to allow the fire chief to post to all career personnel the public education position as the appointed rank of Captain. Butch seconds.
2. Dr. Shufflebarger asks for discussion.
a. Mr. Kite is not certain he is in favor of the move.
b. Mr. Raker stated that it is not a new position or pay
grade.
c. Mr. Kite stated that he was in opposition in the
past.
d. Mr. Dodson stated that he has reservations on the
need for captain over a lieutenant. He
is bothered by the possible lack of respect from the rest of the department for
the position.
i.
He wondered why
it was offered at captains pay last month and there were not takers.
e. Chief Pell stated that he had not been with the department
long enough to know how much grief the person in that position would get.
i.
He did say that
he has seen that first hand in another department, the position would not be disregarded
but will get a lot of grief.
ii.
The position is
already a captain level with captains pay.
f.
Chief Pell also commented
that working the 24 hour shift is desirable and to get someone off that shift
to work fire prevention Monday through Friday is difficult.
i.
Fire Prevention
is a thankless job and for someone to leave the shift to work that they need to
receive the money for the incentive and for those in the private or engineer
position that would work.
g. Mr. Dodson that the person could encounter resistance
because they are just appointed.
(achieved or perceived)
i.
Chief Pell
looked at what the department has and working within the confines of what
already exists made the recommendation of the position being captain rank with
captain pay.
h. Dr. Shufflebarger suggested making up the pay by
using a stipend.
i.
Mr. Raker agrees
but if the compromise is Lt., what is there to gain by giving one bar and
paying for two. He does not see why they
should make the change considering what already exists.
i.
Mr. Sutton asked
if the one person interested in the position has a good chance.
i.
Chief Pell
responded enthusiastically that he has a good chance of doing the job well.
3. Four in favor one opposed.
xiv.
Mr. Sutton reiterated
his reluctance since the original position was created as a captain to accommodate
someone but nothing to do with the ability to do the job.
1. Chief Pell told the board that he would not come to
them if he didn’t believe it was the right move.
2. He also addressed the issue of being top heavy. Do not look at is as career vs. officers,
they also need to manage the part-time people.
There are 21 officers to manage 100 people.
3. The structure is set up for growth into the future.
xv.
The formal
appointment will not come until the Safety Board issue next month. They will also need to add the Staff
Battalion position.
xvi.
Dr.
Shufflebarger directed Ms. Leminger to revise Safety Board Document to add the
Staff Battalion.
1. Mr. Sutton asked if anything needed to be done to
affect the Deputy Chief.
2. Ms. Leminger stated that she would only need to
change the captain issue. The department
can have any amount of staff battalions they want because there is no specified
number in the Document.
xvii.
Ms. Leminger
asked if the fourth staff battalion position needs to be filled before the
budget is approved.
1. Chief Pell stated that the position will not be
filled before complete approval of the budget.
xviii.
The appointment
of captain will not be filled until the Safety Board Document is revised.
1. Chief Pell asked if he can post the position and have
everything complete for next month.
2. Mr. Raker reiterated that the position would be open
to everyone.
xix.
Mr. Sutton asked
the rest of the board if they need to motion to give Dr. Shufflebarger authority
to negotiate with the subcontractors.
1. Butch Sutton motions to authorize the chair to negotiate with the council for payment and action for the subcontractors. Jon Raker seconds.
2. All in favor and motion carries.
xx. Chief Pell asked if there needed to be a motion on the chain of command.
1. Dr. Shufflebarger believes it is approved as a part of the budget. The actual layout is an administrative issue.
2. The board will wait to approve anything else until after the Safety Board Document has been changed.
i. Mr. Sutton would like to see the letters from Simpson.